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by **Joy Christian** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:01 am

FrediFizzx wrote:
Joy Christian wrote::lol:

Russia Makes Bell Violation Illegal!

Russian Officials state that "quantumness" is a made up theory of our nature and it originates from the West. "We will not let such speculators drive National Russian Research funds towards wrong direction" - said Dmitry Livanov, current minister of education of Russian Federation: http://sciencenews.clonezone.link/bellviolation.

Ahh, you almost had me going with April Fool's. Good one.

Perhaps Richard D. Gill has been attested by the Russians for violating Bell. That would explain his sudden disappearance.

by **FrediFizzx** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:25 am

Joy Christian wrote::lol:

Russia Makes Bell Violation Illegal!

Russian Officials state that "quantumness" is a made up theory of our nature and it originates from the West. "We will not let such speculators drive National Russian Research funds towards wrong direction" - said Dmitry Livanov, current minister of education of Russian Federation: http://sciencenews.clonezone.link/bellviolation.

Ahh, you almost had me going with April Fool's. Good one.

by **Joy Christian** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:33 pm

Russia Makes Bell Violation Illegal!

Russian Officials state that "quantumness" is a made up theory of our nature and it originates from the West. "We will not let such speculators drive National Russian Research funds towards wrong direction" - said Dmitry Livanov, current minister of education of Russian Federation: http://sciencenews.clonezone.link/bellviolation.

:lol:

by **thray** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:18 am

Time is on your side, Joy. I hope to live long enough to see the outcome. Whatever the sociological implications, however, science is already the better for it.

by **Joy Christian** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:06 pm

Hi Tom,

The phrase "classical orientation entanglement" is just fine. I have used it, you have used it, and that, in essence, is indeed behind what I have been arguing for. But "classical orientation entanglement" is a completely different concept compared to "quantum entanglement." The latter is dependent on the superposition of remote quantum states, whereas the former is an entirely classical concept, describing one of the key topological properties of the physical space itself. And yes, teleparallel gravity is indeed one of the ways to get a handle on it; and spinors --- which underpin much of the works of Paul Dirac, Herman Weyl, and Roger Penrose -- is another.

by **thray** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:12 pm

Joy,

I can see a nonlinear dynamic exploiting the systems feature of self-similarity, to get a version of teleparallel gravity. In fact, is that not what your framework describes?

It requires no entanglement, although I have used (perhaps you have, too) the phrase 'classical orientation entanglement' to underscore the case that a continuous function (Dirac's belt trick, e.g.) requires at least 2 relative points of motion to define the space. It is this lack of measure space definition that renders quantum theory nonlocal. Were quantum theorists to admit the required degree of freedom, the theory would make no sense -- it would be nonlinear and continuous.

All leading edge research (Jay Yablon, Hess-Phillipp, 't Hooft, you and others) take different mathematical approaches -- yet all converge on completeness. Sticking my neck out :roll:

by **Joy Christian** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:22 am

Ben6993 wrote:I looked at the arxiv version at http://arxiv.org/abs/1509.06217 and note that in the conclusions they say that:
In doing so, we have shown that teleportation is a general concept, that transcends the distinction between classical or quantum systems, and that non-locality ultimately differentiates between these two realms.

So a question is why should non-locality be a requirement for QM when you can get a similar effect classically without non-locality?

For purely sociological and political reasons.

The authors are sociologically wiser than me and continue to use the word "entanglement" despite their purely classical demonstration of a supposedly quantum phenomenon. The orthodox QM does imply nonlocality, however, as EPR discovered in 1935. But EPR also concluded that nonlocality of QM only meant that it is an incomplete theory of Nature. Any complete theory of micro phenomena would not harbour nonlocality; and (as you know) such a framework theory already exists.

by **Ben6993** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:06 am

I looked at the arxiv version at http://arxiv.org/abs/1509.06217 and note that in the conclusions they say that:

In doing so, we have shown that teleportation is a general concept, that transcends the distinction between classical or quantum systems, and that non-locality ultimately differentiates between these two realms.

So a question is why should non-locality be a requirement for QM when you can get a similar effect classically without non-locality?

by **Joy Christian** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:44 am

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 2/abstract

Abstract: Teleportation describes the transmission of information without transport of neither matter nor energy. For many years, however, it has been implicitly assumed that this scheme is of inherently nonlocal nature, and therefore exclusive to quantum systems. Here, we experimentally demonstrate that the concept of teleportation can be readily generalized beyond the quantum realm. We present an optical implementation of the teleportation protocol solely based on classical entanglement between spatial and modal degrees of freedom, entirely independent of nonlocality. Our findings could enable novel methods for distributing information between different transmission channels and may provide the means to leverage the advantages of both quantum and classical systems to create a robust hybrid communication infrastructure.

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