Magnetic monopole + supercurrent = apparent dilemma

Classical Electrodynamics, Maxwell, etc.

Re: Magnetic monopole + supercurrent = apparent dilemma

Postby Q-reeus » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:55 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:Hmm... you shouldn't be disagreeing if you would like a better and more complete understanding of physics. A choice of a man-made unit system can't change physics...

Someone has it all wrong for sure. Once again; choice of units is completely unrelated to the matter of dimensionality of a quantity. I suggest a read of in particular the 2nd main para here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensional_analysis
How can there can be an actual argument over something so fundamental?
...It can only change the perspective. In the perspective I have presented, your OP is silly because you are chasing after something that couldn't ever possibly be true...

What could not possibly ever be true?
What exactly is your relevant perspective and how precisely does it bear down on #1 post? Vague assertions won't cut it here.
...I do believe we agree that it can't be true.

Don't even necessarily agree with that either. IF point monopoles as dual of electric charge DO exist, something considered fundamental to current physics has to give. As per scenario in #1. My bet is energy-momentum conservation would fail. Otherwise a fundamental condensed matter QM relation will. One could take the pov that point monopoles as dual of electric charge are thereby impossible. But I don't see that restricted conclusion as good logic. There is more than one possibility to allow for. In the absence of hugely unlikely experimental evidence as decider. Monopoles sure are scarce. Perhaps infinitely so. :lol:
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Re: Magnetic monopole + supercurrent = apparent dilemma

Postby FrediFizzx » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:40 am

Q-reeus wrote:Someone has it all wrong for sure. Once again; choice of units is completely unrelated to the matter of dimensionality of a quantity. I suggest a read of in particular the 2nd main para here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensional_analysis
How can there can be an actual argument over something so fundamental?

Please don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia. In units where G = c = 1, the mass of the sun is about 2.954 kilometers and in time about 9.853 microseconds.
FrediFizzx wrote:...It can only change the perspective. In the perspective I have presented, your OP is silly because you are chasing after something that couldn't ever possibly be true...

Q-reeus wrote:What could not possibly ever be true?
What exactly is your relevant perspective and how precisely does it bear down on #1 post? Vague assertions won't cut it here.


It is not true that magnetic monopoles will ever be found as something different from electric monopoles as in the perspective I have iterated above shows. So your scenario in the original post is impossible.

FrediFizzx wrote:...I do believe we agree that it can't be true.

Q-reeus wrote:Don't even necessarily agree with that either. IF point monopoles as dual of electric charge DO exist, something considered fundamental to current physics has to give. As per scenario in #1. My bet is energy-momentum conservation would fail. Otherwise a fundamental condensed matter QM relation will. One could take the pov that point monopoles as dual of electric charge are thereby impossible. But I don't see that restricted conclusion as good logic. There is more than one possibility to allow for. In the absence of hugely unlikely experimental evidence as decider. Monopoles sure are scarce. Perhaps infinitely so. :lol:

Physics is safe; magnetic monopoles don't exist as something different from electric monopoles. Maxwell's Equations still rule. :!:
.
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Re: Magnetic monopole + supercurrent = apparent dilemma

Postby Q-reeus » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:12 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:Please don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia...

I don't. On topics where ideology and/or politics bears, It tends to be full of PC s**t. But imo gets it right in most areas of physics & maths. Certainly that supplied article on Dimensional Analysis is one of them. Sadly, you obvious have a basic disagreement with the fundamentals of DA, as per....
...In units where G = c = 1, the mass of the sun is about 2.954 kilometers and in time about 9.853 microseconds...

What??!! Look, if Wikipedia is suss on DA iyo, maybe something emanating from MIT will get through (try p20 on):
http://web.mit.edu/2.25/www/pdf/DA_unified.pdf
Thing is though, you will find there is no disagreement with the comprehensive Wiki article. Basics of DA is something important everyone should have learned partway through secondary school. Was for me. To reject it is amazing.
...It is not true that magnetic monopoles will ever be found as something different from electric monopoles as in the perspective I have iterated above shows. So your scenario in the original post is impossible....Physics is safe; magnetic monopoles don't exist as something different from electric monopoles. Maxwell's Equations still rule. :!:

There is an annoying, persistent ambiguity there, but the only reasonable interpretation is "monopoles and electric charge are one and the same thing and only differ in name".

Which is impossible, as clearly set out in the ME's extended to include magnetic charge i.e. genuine point magnetic monopoles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ ... _equations
Again - my claim in #1 relates to such and has nothing to do with so-called Dirac 'monopoles' aka Dirac 'flux strings' or rather one end of such an inherently unstable hypothetical entity. Or similar such concoctions that imo should never be allowed to be called magnetic monopoles.

Anyway, this is going in circles. As no-one else here either has the interest or courage or competence to take me on, best the thread goes back to zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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Re: Magnetic monopole + supercurrent = apparent dilemma

Postby FrediFizzx » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:37 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:...In units where G = c = 1, the mass of the sun is about 2.954 kilometers and in time about 9.853 microseconds...

Q-reeus wrote:What??!!

That indicates to me that you have never learned about all the different systems of units that physicists routinely employ for one reason or another.

Q-reeus wrote:Look, if Wikipedia is suss on DA iyo, maybe something emanating from MIT will get through (try p20 on):
http://web.mit.edu/2.25/www/pdf/DA_unified.pdf
Thing is though, you will find there is no disagreement with the comprehensive Wiki article. Basics of DA is something important everyone should have learned partway through secondary school. Was for me. To reject it is amazing.

I don't reject dimensional analysis at all; in fact I am a big fan of it. From page 20,
"Science is concerned only with expressing a physical relationship between
one quantity and a set of others, that is, with “physical equations.” Nature
is indifferent to the arbitrary choices we make when we pick base units.
We are interested, therefore, only in numerical relationships that remain
true independent of base unit size."

Apparently you missed that part. I doesn't matter what base units one might select for their unit system. Dimensional analysis is just as valid in one system as it is in another. Your ignorance in this matter is probably preventing you from seeing the obvious conclusion of what I have presented about monopoles.

Now... don't take "ignorance" the wrong way... it is completely curable... but stupidity is forever. :D
.
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Re: Magnetic monopole + supercurrent = apparent dilemma

Postby Q-reeus » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:12 pm

Fred, you must well know my completely consistent position on DA from posts
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65#p7816
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65#p7818
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65&start=20#p7822
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65&start=20#p7824

Therefore, to then quote that passage from p20 of MIT article I supplied link to, and imply I, rather than yourself, somehow 'missed that part' is weird. Twilight Zone stuff.
I can only imagine your close pal here must be wincing painfully at such a level of misapprehension. And only out of loyalty and maybe self-interest, refraining from joining in to scold you.

Seems there are no other takers. What a nightmare. Having just recently walked away from another forum owing to it's persistent level of craziness.
But by all means DO carry on elsewhere with THE single issue this forum was evidently set up to air relentlessly.
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