gill1109 wrote:Good reading, Zen! Indeed, there is *no* theta_0 which satisfies the condition *for all x*, Joy thinks that any x will do; say, a and b.
minkwe wrote:I've been too busy to participate in this thread but I do not see the observed discrepancy when I run my python code, probably because as you can see on line 26 of the code, the way the p distribution is obtained is specific. I do not uniformly select t from 0 to pi/2 and then calculate 1/2 sin(t)^2. Rather, I generate a uniformly spaced set of t from 0 to pi/2, calculate 1/2 sin(t)^2 for each value in this set, then randomly pick p values from this set, with replacement.
Joy Christian wrote:On the other hand, I am able to reduce the discrepancy to nearly insignificant when I run his code with the two phase angles on Bob's side as we discussed above.
gill1109 wrote:Indeed I do not understand "the Math of Joy", we have been through this before. Nice for me to see that Zen has the same problem that I do.
gill1109 wrote:But this discussion has laid bare a discrepancy between the Minkwe model and Joy's original. We should not be sampling theta_0 uniformly from [0, pi/2] but we should be sampling g_0 uniformly from S^2 and picking some x in S^2 ... how? which? and putting they_0 = arg cos (x^T g_0).
gill1109 wrote:We await instructions from Joy. His wish is our command.
gill1109 wrote:Joy seems to have difficulty figuring out what the various simulation experiments are actually computing.
Joy Christian wrote:As minkwe explained, he does not sample theta_0 uniformly from [0, pi/2]. You are the one who is doing it. Consequently you are the one who is seeing a discrepancy that is not there in my analytical model to begin with.
I have difficulty figuring out why you insist on introducing errors in your simulation. I have no difficulty understanding the other error-free simulations.
FrediFizzx wrote:Must be a DNS problem as I can't see them. Only image placeholders.
Update: Tried resetting my cable modem, router, etc. Still no go. Well... not the first time Time Warner Cable has had DNS problems. But I tried over my phone (not thru TWC but thru ATT) and still no math images and I can't even get on codecogs.com website to report the problem. Strange indeed!
minkwe wrote:I haven't looked at Caroline's model so I can't say if it is similar to anything I've done.
It would appear on first reading of the Gisin model that Bob knows Alice's angle, else why do they define Alice's vector using the difference in angle between Bob and Alice (alpha)?
minkwe wrote:I haven't looked at Caroline's model so I can't say if it is similar to anything I've done.
It would appear on first reading of the Gisin model that Bob knows Alice's angle, else why do they define Alice's vector using the difference in angle between Bob and Alice (alpha)?
Joy Christian wrote:minkwe wrote:I haven't looked at Caroline's model so I can't say if it is similar to anything I've done.
It would appear on first reading of the Gisin model that Bob knows Alice's angle, else why do they define Alice's vector using the difference in angle between Bob and Alice (alpha)?
You are correct. The Gisin-Gisin model is manifestly non-local. The non-locality is hidden in their "convenient" choice of reference frame.
This is a perfect example of people not being able see the blatant errors in works that are consistent with their own cherished ideology.
Zen wrote:Richard,
In this R script
http://rpubs.com/gill1109/Gisin2
you're probably missing a minus sign in the computation of the correlation
corr <- sum( sign(ca[good]) * - sign(cb[good]) ) / M
and the qm correlation is - sum(a * b).
gill1109 wrote:Don't worry about the fight, Zen. Let's concentrate on the Monte Carlo experiments.
gill1109 wrote:I am waiting for Minkwe to tell us where precisely he sees a difference in angle between Bob and Alice being used to define a vector of Alice's. Where he sees it in my code. He does not need to await instructions from The Big Boss. He's an independent, thinking, scientist.
minkwe wrote:gill1109 wrote:I am waiting for Minkwe to tell us where precisely he sees a difference in angle between Bob and Alice being used to define a vector of Alice's. Where he sees it in my code. He does not need to await instructions from The Big Boss. He's an independent, thinking, scientist.
Richard,
What's all this talk about The Big Boss, is it coming from the same place as your earlier claims without evidence that I had been paid to write code?
As concerns your demands that I make a precise statement about your code, it is obvious that I made a statement about the Gisin model, not your code. If you want to see the part of the paper about which I was speaking, you can check for yourself at the top of page 2:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/9905018.pdf
Where they derive the -cos(alpha) relationship, you can see that they do not use separate angles on each side. Rather, they define the vectors by using the difference of the angles. Now I'm not saying it is not possible to redo it using different angles, all I'm saying is they define b = (0,0,1) and a = (sin(alpha), 0, cos(alpha)), which clearly shows that we are using information about Bob's angle choice to define Alice's angle choice.
Joy Christian wrote:I am grateful to Richard Gill for insisting on greater precision for the simulation, which helped me discover a more accurate choice for the initial state (e_o, theta_o) in the EPR-Bohm case. I am also grateful to Chantal Roth for encouraging me to learn R and thus investigate Richard Gill's simulation myself. The result of my investigations is not devoid of beauty.
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