Can a valid ether theory be non-local?

Foundations of physics and/or philosophy of physics, and in particular, posts on unresolved or controversial issues

Can a valid ether theory be non-local?

Postby FrediFizzx » Wed May 27, 2015 1:14 pm

Discussion moved from viewtopic.php?f=6&t=115&p=4126#p4126.

Schmelzer wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote:You are still non-local so in fact are still prescribing to "action at a distance". You have not gotten yourself out of quantum mysticism completely.

So why should I be afraid of action at a distance? Newton was also not afraid of it. This is something one can leave to the future. It was also clear to Newton that his theory can be only an approximation, because it has this action at a distance. But so what? Realism and causality are preserved, not in danger, with a hidden preferred frame. And if one, in some future, observes violations of quantum theory because the immediate action at a distance it requires is not as immediate as required, I will be happy (if I'm yet alive).

There is certainly much less quantum mysticism in de Broglie-Bohm theory than in all the non-realistic interpretations. Without doubt, there is yet room for improvement, I'm working in this direction right now. But the "action at a distance" is, from the point of view of an ether theorist, not even a problem.


Now that seems really strange to me. If you have a medium permeating all of the void and defining space, it seems that the medium would make all physical processes local. How do you justify that?
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Re: Can a valid ether theory be non-local?

Postby Schmelzer » Wed May 27, 2015 1:38 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:Now that seems really strange to me. If you have a medium permeating all of the void and defining space, it seems that the medium would make all physical processes local. How do you justify that?


"Defining space" is wrong in relation to my ether theory. The space is absolute, Newtonian, and the ether only defines the results of length and time measurements by rulers and clocks, not space or time themself.

And, of course, most of the most important causal influences happen within the boundaries of the space of sound of the ether. But causality is certainly not defined by the domain which can be influenced using the sound speed of the ether, but by absolute time. Which is the time coordinate used in the Schroedinger equation.

Given that quantum theory IMHO makes clear predictions which cannot be explained in an Einstein-causal way (Christian has not yet succeeded to explain it in a for me satisfactory way), I accept that there have to be some causal influences which happen faster than the speed of sound of the ether. This speed may be not infinite, but it seems yet to be larger than the velocities accessible to our experimentators. Such is life.

Conceptually, my decision has always been to accept experimental results as they are, as the mainstream accepts them, and to reject the mainstream position mainly in the domain of metaphysics. So, my actual attempts to develop hidden variable theories for QM are also not directed against QM, but only against the mysterious QM metaphysics of the usual interpretations. If this gives some hints about where QM may be wrong (as, for example, the infinities of the Bohmian velocity indicates that QM may be wrong near the zeros of the wave function) that's fine, but nothing obligatory.
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Re: Can a valid ether theory be non-local?

Postby FrediFizzx » Wed May 27, 2015 3:09 pm

You didn't really justify non-local "action at a distance" physically. And... I suspect that is why your ether theory has never really gotten off the ground.

We will have a new ether theory developed hopefully by the end of summer that will be totally classical local realistic. And that will also satisfy the Standard Model of Particle Physics.
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Re: Can a valid ether theory be non-local?

Postby Schmelzer » Wed May 27, 2015 3:50 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:You didn't really justify non-local "action at a distance" physically. And... I suspect that is why your ether theory has never really gotten off the ground.

I don't think so. Ether theories have no chance today, for purely economic reasons. Young scientists have to care about getting a new grant/job every two years, which makes them extremely dependent on the establishment, they have to produce in short time articles/conference proceedings, which is much easier in fashionable directions, with many journals to publish, many conferences, many interested readers to cite the articles. So, they are essentially forced to follow fashionable mainstream directions.

FrediFizzx wrote:We will have a new ether theory developed hopefully by the end of summer that will be totally classical local realistic. And that will also satisfy the Standard Model of Particle Physics.

I wish you success. But I do not have much hope that you succeed.
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Re: Can a valid ether theory be non-local?

Postby minkwe » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:32 am

Schmelzer wrote:Young scientists have to care about getting a new grant/job every two years, which makes them extremely dependent on the establishment, they have to produce in short time articles/conference proceedings, which is much easier in fashionable directions, with many journals to publish, many conferences, many interested readers to cite the articles. So, they are essentially forced to follow fashionable mainstream directions.


I agree 100%. This is one of the reasons this period will be seen as the dark ages of theoretical physics. It is no longer physics, it is boot-licking, for economic reasons.
Last edited by FrediFizzx on Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quoting.
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Re: Can a valid ether theory be non-local?

Postby DanielLBurnstein » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:44 pm

a new ether theory developed hopefully by the end of summer that will be totally classical local realistic


Sounds somewhat like this?

http://www.quantumgeometrydynamics.com/ ... o-physics/

DLB
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