3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

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3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby Joy Christian » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:20 am

***
I had asked Chantal Roth to translate John Reed's Mathematica simulation of my 3-sphere model with 3D vectors in R (because R is the only programming language I understand a bit).

Chantal kindly obliged and produced the simulation in no time. Here is her code (published by Rpubs): http://rpubs.com/chenopodium/516072.

The plot looks fantastic! Of course it does, because my 3-sphere model is the only correct way to understand the singlet correlations without any unpalatable conceptual baggage. :)

Image
***
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Re: 3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby FrediFizzx » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:52 am

Yes, that is more validation of the product calculation.
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Re: 3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby gill1109 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:33 pm

Joy Christian wrote:***
I had asked Chantal Roth to translate John Reed's Mathematica simulation of my 3-sphere model with 3D vectors in R (because R is the only programming language I understand a bit).

Chantal kindly obliged and produced the simulation in no time. Here is her code (published by Rpubs): http://rpubs.com/chenopodium/516072.

The plot looks fantastic! Of course it does, because my 3-sphere model is the only correct way to understand the singlet correlations without any unpalatable conceptual baggage. :)

Image
***

Yes, this is a fancy way to compute zero by simulation, and a fancy way to compute a cosine curve.

The two parts of the code (computation of mean values by simulation, and drawing the curve) are completely disjoint. There is no simulation at all in the curve. It is a theoretical calculation, exact, of the cosine.

The whole thing proves nothing but does show how one can skillfully create illusions. Great team-work of Joy and Chantal!

The first part with the numerical results, the computation of some mean values, uses the fact that if you toss a fair coin 100,000 times, code "H" and "T" with -1 and +1, and average, you'll get something very close to zero. The simulation would be a lot faster, and it would be exact instead of approximate, if you used that theoretical mean value (zero) instead of the empirical average (something random pretty close to zero).

The core of the calculations is an exact (theoretical) computation and in fact just the exact and conventional computation with Pauli matrices. There is no "conceptual baggage" in this nice R code at all. The "simulation" is spurious. There are a lot of different random directions a and b. lambda does not have to mean anything, does not have to correspond to anything in reality. For the (first part) numerical result, the 100,000 repetitions are simply a clumsy way to approximately compute zero, and a way to densely sample directions a and b. We know from Bell's theorem, thought of as a result from approximation theory or numerical analysis or theoretical computer science, that there is no way to convert the "concept" of this computation into a local realistic model. Trivially, we know that if lambda can only take on two different values with equal probability, and if functions A and B take the values +/-1 only, then the product A(a, lambda)B(b, lambda) can only take two different values +/-1 with equal probability, or this product will always equal +1, or always equal -1. The mean value of A(a, lambda)B(b, lambda) can therefore only be -1, 0, or +1, whatever the values of a or b.

Notice that the final plot is the plot of the *real part* of the product of two quaternions, which depend on directions a and b, against the angle between the directions. In Joy's model he takes the product in two different orders depending on the value lambda, and averages. In Chantal's code, plotting the cosine curve, she doesn't bother to average at all. She just calculates the real part of the product of the two quaternions, which does not depend on the order of multiplication at all! "lambda" does not play any role at all in the plot of the curve! It is exact!
Last edited by gill1109 on Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby Joy Christian » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:57 pm

:lol:
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Re: 3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby gill1109 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:11 pm

Joy Christian wrote::lol:

:lol: indeed!
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Re: 3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby FrediFizzx » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:13 pm

Ok guys, get back on-topic.
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Re: 3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby Joy Christian » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:21 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:Ok guys, get back on-topic.

The topic here is physics. But not all commentators seem to care about physics. If there is a comment about the physics of the 3-sphere model, then I may respond accordingly.

***
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Re: 3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby gill1109 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:22 am

Joy Christian wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote:Ok guys, get back on-topic.

The topic here is physics. But not all commentators seem to care about physics. If there is a comment about the physics of the 3-sphere model, then I may respond accordingly.

***

Joy Christian wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote:Ok guys, get back on-topic.

The topic here is physics. But not all commentators seem to care about physics. If there is a comment about the physics of the 3-sphere model, then I may respond accordingly.

I care about the mathematics of the physics of the 3-sphere model. Chantal's simulation is a set of computer code. It can be translated into a sequence of mathematical definitions and derivations. She does not reveal all of the code in her latest RPubs post. The one we are discussing here. I say that Chantal's mathematics is "just" the *routine* QM calculation using the Pauli matrices of the correlations of the EPR-B model. At one step in that routine and standard calculation, one notices that one averages a complex number and its complex conjugate. This is where Joy came in - he noticed that that could be thought of as the mean value of some random quaternions. Which can be nicely written in the language of Geometric Algebra. This is a nice observation. Does it have anything to do with the torsion of space? Has it got something to do with physics? Has it got something to do with the geometry of the real 4D space-time we live in? Well, if the universe is ruled by more or less standard Copenhagen dogma quantum mechanics then we are wasting our time looking for explanations at the level of individual particles. There is no explanation, because of wave-particle duality. However I think there may well be something "behind" quantum mechanics but I fear that it will be something more weird, not less weird. See for instance Jarek's maximum entropy random walks.

I would say that so far Joy has merely put forward a daring physics hunch. He might be right. But the mathematics, so far, does not support his hunch. In other words: I say that there unfortunately still is no physics of the 3-sphere model. At least, no connection to the *physics* of quantum entanglement. There is just some mathematics which actually is the *same* mathematics as what we already had. I think that Chantal's code proves that nicely. It makes simple things more complicated and feeds an illusion by hiding embarassing details.
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Re: 3-sphere 3D Vectors Simulation in R by Chantal Roth

Postby Joy Christian » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:41 am

gill1109 wrote:At one step in that routine and standard calculation, one notices that one averages a complex number and its complex conjugate. This is where Joy came in - he noticed that that could be thought of as the mean value of some random quaternions. Which can be nicely written in the language of Geometric Algebra. This is a nice observation.

This is not the correct history of my model. This is a revisionist history, spin-doctored to undermine what I found and proposed back in 2007: https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0703179.

***
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