A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction

Foundations of physics and/or philosophy of physics, and in particular, posts on unresolved or controversial issues

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby SEKI » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:21 am

minkwe wrote:Well, good luck to you on your adventure. I won't mind if you don't invite me to your Nobel Prize award ceremony.

Thanks for your encouragement (ridicule?).
As I wrote previously, I am only a layman who majored in physics about 40 years ago.
And, I have neither ability nor intention of developing the model.
So, if someone else is to accomplish it, I am very happy.

Sincerely,
SEKI Hajime
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby minkwe » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:28 pm

SEKI wrote:Thanks for your encouragement (ridicule?).
As I wrote previously, I am only a layman who majored in physics about 40 years ago.
And, I have neither ability nor intention of developing the model.

Yet you are so confident that you don't listen to criticism of the so-called model.

See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51.
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby SEKI » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:20 am

minkwe wrote:
SEKI wrote:Thanks for your encouragement (ridicule?).
As I wrote previously, I am only a layman who majored in physics about 40 years ago.
And, I have neither ability nor intention of developing the model.

Yet you are so confident that you don't listen to criticism of the so-called model.

See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51.

It is only a layman's model.
However, if no other model can come up with a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989), I cannot but consider it to be the only option.
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby minkwe » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:18 pm

SEKI wrote:
minkwe wrote:
SEKI wrote:Thanks for your encouragement (ridicule?).
As I wrote previously, I am only a layman who majored in physics about 40 years ago.
And, I have neither ability nor intention of developing the model.

Yet you are so confident that you don't listen to criticism of the so-called model.

See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51.

It is only a layman's model.
However, if no other model can come up with a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989), I cannot but consider it to be the only option.

Apparently you don't read full sentences either :D
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby SEKI » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:10 pm

minkwe wrote:
SEKI wrote:It is only a layman's model.
However, if no other model can come up with a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989), I cannot but consider it to be the only option.

Apparently you don't read full sentences either :D

Where did you show a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989)?
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby gill1109 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:38 am

SEKI wrote:
minkwe wrote:Well, good luck to you on your adventure. I won't mind if you don't invite me to your Nobel Prize award ceremony.

Thanks for your encouragement (ridicule?).
As I wrote previously, I am only a layman who majored in physics about 40 years ago.
And, I have neither the ability nor intention of developing the model.
So, if someone else is to accomplish it, I am very happy.
Sincerely,
SEKI Hajime

Your name is Hajime Seki and you are, as I guessed, a Japanese gentleman? [Our friend Minkwe was certainly using "sarcasm"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm]. Good luck. I'm afraid you will have to do some more work yourself if you want to promote your ideas.

I cannot judge myself if they are good or not (I am a mathematician, not a physicist). Maybe somebody else on this forum has better insights.
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby SEKI » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:42 am

gill1109 wrote:Your name is Hajime Seki and you are, as I guessed, a Japanese gentleman?

Yes, I am a Japanese retired man.
And, "SEKI" is my family name.

Good luck. I'm afraid you will have to do some more work yourself if you want to promote your ideas.

You may be right, though, as I wrote previously, I have neither the ability nor intention of further developing the model.
Que Será, Será
Thank you very much for your interest.
SEKI
 
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby minkwe » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:29 am

SEKI wrote:Where did you show a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989)?


If you read the thread I gave you earlier, you will find on page 2 the following:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51&start=20

minkwe wrote:1) quanta/particles can transfer momentum to the walls if the slits.
2) The amount of momentum transferred, determines the angle of deflection of the particle.
3) Transfered momentum is quantized. Therefore the particles are deflected into discrete directions.
4) The allowed directions are determined by the relationship between the normal modes if the slit system and the frequency of the quanta/particle.
5) Since different slit systems have different normal modes, the diffraction patterns are different.
6) The pattern produced, and the slit system producing it have a dual relationship. They can be expressed as Fourier transforms of each other.


minkwe wrote:http://www.pnas.org/content/9/5/158.full.pdf
Duane, W. "The transfer in quanta of radiation momentum to matter." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 9.5 (1923): 158.

Epstein & Ehrenfest:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 5-0015.pdf
Epstein PS, Ehrenfest P. The Quantum Theory of the Fraunhofer Diffraction. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1924 Apr;10(4):133–139.
In an important paper published on the pages of these PROCUIEDINGS, W. Duane' makes a successful "attempt to formulate a theory of the reflection
of X-rays by crystals, based on quantum ideas without reference to interference laws." A. H. Compton, enlarging upon a hint contained in Duane's paper, has recently pointed out that the latter's hypothesis can be justified by the application of the general rules of the theory of quanta to the translatory motions of a crystal lattice. ...

and by Arthur Compton:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 4-0003.pdf
Compton AH. The Quantum Integral and Diffraction by a Crystal. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1923 Nov;9(11):359–362.
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby SEKI » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:45 am

minkwe wrote:
SEKI wrote:Where did you show a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989)?


If you read the thread I gave you earlier, you will find on page 2 the following:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51&start=20

minkwe wrote:1) quanta/particles can transfer momentum to the walls if the slits.
2) The amount of momentum transferred, determines the angle of deflection of the particle.
3) Transfered momentum is quantized. Therefore the particles are deflected into discrete directions.
4) The allowed directions are determined by the relationship between the normal modes if the slit system and the frequency of the quanta/particle.
5) Since different slit systems have different normal modes, the diffraction patterns are different.
6) The pattern produced, and the slit system producing it have a dual relationship. They can be expressed as Fourier transforms of each other.


Sorry, I am not interested.
Please don't mind.
I am only a layman, and never expect to be invited to your Nobel Prize award ceremony.

Thank you very much for your time and professionalism.
Good luck. I wish you great success.
SEKI
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:11 pm

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby minkwe » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:27 am

SEKI wrote:
minkwe wrote:
SEKI wrote:Where did you show a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989)?


If you read the thread I gave you earlier, you will find on page 2 the following:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51&start=20

minkwe wrote:1) quanta/particles can transfer momentum to the walls if the slits.
2) The amount of momentum transferred, determines the angle of deflection of the particle.
3) Transfered momentum is quantized. Therefore the particles are deflected into discrete directions.
4) The allowed directions are determined by the relationship between the normal modes if the slit system and the frequency of the quanta/particle.
5) Since different slit systems have different normal modes, the diffraction patterns are different.
6) The pattern produced, and the slit system producing it have a dual relationship. They can be expressed as Fourier transforms of each other.


Sorry, I am not interested.
Please don't mind.
I am only a layman, and never expect to be invited to your Nobel Prize award ceremony.

Thank you very much for your time and professionalism.
Good luck. I wish you great success.


You are very interesting, I like you.
minkwe
 
Posts: 1441
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:22 am

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby SEKI » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:04 am

SEKI wrote:(4)
Let's consider a process, a+b -> c (+d+...), where each of a, b, c, ... stands for a quantum (elementary particle). If a part of quantum a and that of quantum b get to overlap one another in the space, both overlapped parts are to be compressed as their motions are impeded due to interaction between the quantum fields of a and b. Compression of overlapped part of each quantum and the cohesive forces may result in a kind of mutual absorption between the quanta. If the domains of quanta, a and b, both reduce to the same point or extremely small area, the above process is to be able to take place.


I should have added the following item.

(5)
What is acknowledged as an interaction through so-called virtual particle is actually an interaction with a set of tentative quantum and anti-quantum, which can exist momentarily.

The vacuum space fluctuates so as to continually and irregularly produce and dissolve sets of tentative quantum and anti-quantum whose total energy and momentum are both zero.
What is acknowledged as an interaction between particle a and particle b through so-called virtual particle c is actually an interaction among quantum a, quantum b and a set of tentative quantum c and its corresponding tentative anti-quantum whose energy and momentum are to cancel those of tentative quantum c.

For example, let us consider electron-electron scattering.
If an electron is to absorb a tentative photon that form a set with a tentative anti-photon, which has negative energy, in the manner described in (4), the other electron is to absorb the tentative anti-photon in the same manner.
SEKI
 
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby gill1109 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:13 am

SEKI wrote:However, if no other model can come up with a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989), I cannot but consider it to be the only option.

For Tonomura et al. I found this link: https://sites.ifi.unicamp.br/aguiar/files/2014/02/tonomura-1989.pdf
Demonstration of single‐electron buildup of an interference pattern
American Journal of Physics 57, 117 (1989); https://doi.org/10.1119/1.16104
A. Tonomura, J. Endo, T. Matsuda, T. Kawasaki H. Ezawa

Taylor (1909) must be "Interference fringes with feeble light" GI Taylor - Proceedings of the Cambridge Philosophical Society, 1909.

Many people have come up with mechanisms for pattern formation in the two-slit experiment!
For instance: https://arxiv.org/abs/1005.0906
Corpuscular model of two-beam interference and double-slit experiments with single photons
Fengping Jin, Shengjun Yuan, Hans De Raedt, Kristel Michielsen, Seiji Miya s h i ta (the forum software replaced the four letters of Seiji's surname starting with the "s" with "s * * *")
The Bohmians have "solved" this problem with their theory, long ago. See the beautiful pictures in:
C. Philippidis, C. Dewdney and B.J. Hiley, Il Nuovo Cimento 52, 15 (1979)
https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02743566
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Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduct

Postby SEKI » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:21 am

gill1109 wrote:
SEKI wrote:However, if no other model can come up with a mechanism of pattern formation in the experiments of Taylor (1909) and Tonomura et al (1989), I cannot but consider it to be the only option.

For Tonomura et al. I found this link: https://sites.ifi.unicamp.br/aguiar/files/2014/02/tonomura-1989.pdf
Demonstration of single‐electron buildup of an interference pattern
American Journal of Physics 57, 117 (1989); https://doi.org/10.1119/1.16104
A. Tonomura, J. Endo, T. Matsuda, T. Kawasaki H. Ezawa

Taylor (1909) must be "Interference fringes with feeble light" GI Taylor - Proceedings of the Cambridge Philosophical Society, 1909.

Many people have come up with mechanisms for pattern formation in the two-slit experiment!
For instance: https://arxiv.org/abs/1005.0906
Corpuscular model of two-beam interference and double-slit experiments with single photons
Fengping Jin, Shengjun Yuan, Hans De Raedt, Kristel Michielsen, Seiji Miya s h i ta (the forum software replaced the four letters of Seiji's surname starting with the "s" with "s * * *")
The Bohmians have "solved" this problem with their theory, long ago. See the beautiful pictures in:
C. Philippidis, C. Dewdney and B.J. Hiley, Il Nuovo Cimento 52, 15 (1979)
https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02743566


In the first posting on this topic, I argued that a quantum cannot but be considered to be a wave, not a particle, and that some kind of cohesive force needs to be introduced.
So, the wave model with cohesive force is the only option acceptable to me.

Thanks for your interest.
SEKI
 
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