Einstein-Cartan gravity in Particle Physics

Foundations of physics and/or philosophy of physics, and in particular, posts on unresolved or controversial issues

Einstein-Cartan gravity in Particle Physics

Postby FrediFizzx » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:16 pm

Our paper "On the Role of Einstein-Cartan Gravity in Fundamental Particle Physics" is now published in the Universe journal special issue "Torsion-Gravity and Spinors in Fundamental Theoretical Physics".

https://www.mdpi.com/2218-1997/6/8/112

This published version has been enhanced by interaction with peer-reviewers and the editor but the basic idea remains the same. Elementary fermions have a near Planck length radii due to gravitational torsion.

Two of the major open questions in particle physics are: (1) Why do the elementary fermionic particles that are so far observed have such low mass-energy compared to the Planck energy scale? (2) What mechanical energy may be counterbalancing the divergent electrostatic and strong force energies of point-like charged fermions in the vicinity of the Planck scale? In this paper, using a hitherto unrecognised mechanism derived from the non-linear amelioration of the Dirac equation known as the Hehl–Datta equation within the Einstein–Cartan–Sciama–Kibble (ECSK) extension of general relativity, we present detailed numerical estimates suggesting that the mechanical energy arising from the gravitationally coupled self-interaction in the ECSK theory can address both of these questions in tandem.

Enjoy!
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FrediFizzx
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Re: Einstein-Cartan gravity in Particle Physics

Postby Joy Christian » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:22 pm

***
You are going to be famous, Fred. It has been only 20 days since the paper was published and it has been downloaded 263 times already! :)

***
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Re: Einstein-Cartan gravity in Particle Physics

Postby FrediFizzx » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:48 pm

Joy Christian wrote:***
You are going to be famous, Fred. It has been only 20 days since the paper was published and it has been downloaded 263 times already! :)

***

Thanks. You too! I'd settle for nearly famous. :D I just hope the people reading it are taking it seriously. It is a sensible solution for a long time mystery in particle physics. It all started about 5 years ago when I asked you what torsion is exactly. If spacetime can be curved or bent, it should be able to be twisted also. But a fantastic thing happens when twisted enough. Matter happens! In the form of elementary fermions.
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FrediFizzx
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Re: Einstein-Cartan gravity in Particle Physics

Postby Joy Christian » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:29 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:
Joy Christian wrote:***
You are going to be famous, Fred. It has been only 20 days since the paper was published and it has been downloaded 263 times already! :)

***

Thanks. You too! I'd settle for nearly famous. :D I just hope the people reading it are taking it seriously. It is a sensible solution for a long time mystery in particle physics. It all started about 5 years ago when I asked you what torsion is exactly. If spacetime can be curved or bent, it should be able to be twisted also. But a fantastic thing happens when twisted enough. Matter happens! In the form of elementary fermions.

Good summary.

It is also worth noting here that there is also this related paper (published in Prespacetime Journal) that is more accessible: https://www.prespacetime.com/index.php/ ... /view/1584

***
Joy Christian
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Location: Oxford, United Kingdom

Re: Einstein-Cartan gravity in Particle Physics

Postby FrediFizzx » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:07 am

Joy Christian wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote:...
Thanks. You too! I'd settle for nearly famous. :D I just hope the people reading it are taking it seriously. It is a sensible solution for a long time mystery in particle physics. It all started about 5 years ago when I asked you what torsion is exactly. If spacetime can be curved or bent, it should be able to be twisted also. But a fantastic thing happens when twisted enough. Matter happens! In the form of elementary fermions.

Good summary.

It is also worth noting here that there is also this related paper (published in Prespacetime Journal) that is more accessible: https://www.prespacetime.com/index.php/ ... /view/1584

***

So, how much twisting of spacetime has to happen for elementary fermions? I suspect it is near the GUT scale so this must have happened near the "big bang". To continue the story above, shortly after we learned that gravitational torsion energy might/could be negative with respect to positive mass-energy. So, we might have a mechanism that could balance out the huge electrostatic energy at short radii. But the idea languished for a few months until we ran across Poplawski's series of papers about torsion and learned of the Hehl-Datta equation. The Hehl-Datta equation is the result of marrying the Dirac equation with Einstein-Cartan gravity. But something was wrong. Hehl, Datta and Poplawski all had the torsion energy resulting from intrinsic spin, positive with respect to mass-energy. However, we found that other researchers had the torsion energy negative with respect to mass-energy so they had a simple sign mistake. Which is fortunate because if torsion energy is positive, the mass-energy of elementary fermions would be truly infinite. And we know that is not the case.

We originally submitted the paper to PRD with a spin fluid concept which didn't work that well. After that rejection, we noticed that it should be possible to solve the Hehl-Datta equation directly without using the stupid spin fluid concept. Joy came up with a fantastic semi-classical evaluation based on separating fermions from anti-fermions in the rest frame and it worked. Using that as a guide, was able to later do a full QFT S-matrix evaluation for the rest frame. But there was a problem. It didn't exactly match the semi-classical evaluation even though the results were close to the same. During my discussion with Jarek on this forum about our idea, I realized my mistake and thus we finally arrived at the published version with the S-matrix evaluation exactly matching the semi-classical evaluation. However, we took out the semi-classical evaluation from the published version to make the paper shorter and it wasn't really needed any longer. But for those that might be interested, you can find it in earlier versions on arXiv.
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