Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definiteness

Foundations of physics and/or philosophy of physics, and in particular, posts on unresolved or controversial issues

Re: Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definitenes

Postby Justo » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:27 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:What is the Bell bound for CHSH?


And the answer is

FrediFizzx wrote:The real bound has to be 3 and for CHSH the real bound has to be 4
Justo
 

Re: Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definitenes

Postby FrediFizzx » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:18 pm

Justo wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote:What is the Bell bound for CHSH?


And the answer is

You are lost if you don't know what the CHSH Bell bound is. It's 2.
.
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Re: Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definitenes

Postby Justo » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:35 pm

FrediFizzx wrote:
Justo wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote:What is the Bell bound for CHSH?


And the answer is

You are lost if you don't know what the CHSH Bell bound is. It's 2.
.

Then Bell was right!
Justo
 

Re: Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definitenes

Postby FrediFizzx » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:47 pm

@Justo Bell was right about what?
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Re: Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definitenes

Postby Joy Christian » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 pm

Justo wrote:
Then Bell was right!

No one has claimed that Bell's mathematics is wrong. It is the physics he messed up, just like von Neumann did.
.
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Re: Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definitenes

Postby FrediFizzx » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:48 pm

Joy Christian wrote:
Justo wrote:
Then Bell was right!

No one has claimed that Bell's mathematics is wrong. It is the physics he messed up, just like von Neumann did.
.

I suspect Justo is putting us on here. Or he is actually really lost since we have given scientific mathematical objective proof in black and white that Bell was wrong about his theory.
.
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Re: Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definitenes

Postby gill1109 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:21 pm

Joy Christian wrote:
Justo wrote:Then Bell was right!

No one has claimed that Bell's mathematics is wrong. It is the physics he messed up, just like von Neumann did.

I think that someone calling themselves “Joy Christian” used to claim that Bell’s mathematics was wrong, but it is good that they now at least agree with the maths. Joy now claims that his physics intuition trumps elementary arithmetic. This will make it hard for him to communicate with other scientists but who knows, I guess he will be able to find like-minded persons.
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Re: Some people do not understand Counterfactual Definitenes

Postby Joy Christian » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:58 am

gill1109 wrote:
Joy Christian wrote:
Justo wrote:Then Bell was right!

No one has claimed that Bell's mathematics is wrong. It is the physics he messed up, just like von Neumann did.

I think that someone calling themselves “Joy Christian” used to claim that Bell’s mathematics was wrong, but it is good that they now at least agree with the maths. Joy now claims that his physics intuition trumps elementary arithmetic. This will make it hard for him to communicate with other scientists but who knows, I guess he will be able to find like-minded persons.

There are many dubious physical assumptions on which Bell's argument is based. I have exposed these assumptions at various places in my publications over the past fourteen years. Bell's argument is like Swiss cheese. There are many holes in it. And I am not talking about experimentally relevant loopholes. I am talking about holes in his theoretical argument. But Justo was talking about the specific issue of equating four separate expectation values with a single expectation value. That can be done arithmetically but it is physically meaningless gobbledygook.
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