Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

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Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby FrediFizzx » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:08 am

I got bored one day and decided to do this to see if any clues. There were no clues. Simulation is enhanced with 3D vectors. Plot for 5 million trials at one degree resolution,

Image

Here is a PDF of the Mathematica file along with the notebook file for those that might be interested.

EPRsims/heine.pdf
EPRsims/heine.nb

I have to say that those A and B measurement functions are something else to behold. :D Not very realistic.




And not a spec of quantum mechanics in them. Enjoy!
.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby Heinera » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:21 am

FrediFizzx wrote:I got bored one day and decided to do this to see if any clues. There were no clues. Simulation is enhanced with 3D vectors. Plot for 5 million trials at one degree resolution,

Image

Here is a PDF of the Mathematica file along with the notebook file for those that might be interested.

EPRsims/heine.pdf
EPRsims/heine.nb

I have to say that those A and B measurement functions are something else to behold. :D Not very realistic.




And not a spec of quantum mechanics in them. Enjoy!
.

Of course there is "a spec of quantum mechanics" there. If you bother to take a closer look you will see that the measurement functions are simply sampling from the joint QM probability distribution.

Is this simulation interesting? No. Is it trivial? Yes. It was made as a respons to "someone's" claim that it would be difficult to write even a non-local simulation that reproduced the QM correlations. As this code shows, it is not.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby FrediFizzx » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:28 pm

Heinera wrote: Of course there is "a spec of quantum mechanics" there. If you bother to take a closer look you will see that the measurement functions are simply sampling from the joint QM probability distribution.

Is this simulation interesting? No. Is it trivial? Yes. It was made as a respons to "someone's" claim that it would be difficult to write even a non-local simulation that reproduced the QM correlations. As this code shows, it is not.

Uh hu, and my dog ate my homework. :lol: So what if it samples the joint QM probability distribution. Ya got no valid QM operaters and I don't see any singlet vector. Though I suppose the hidden variable could be a representation of the singlet vector. Who said "it would be difficult to write even a non-local simulation that reproduced the QM correlations"? I don't ever remember that. Non-local simulations are easy as we know. The hard one is to write a local simulation using QM operators.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby Heinera » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:00 pm

FrediFizzx wrote: The hard one is to write a local simulation using QM operators.
.

The day you understand Bell's theorem (if that day ever comes) you will realize that writing a local simulation that reproduces the QM correlations is not just hard; it's impossible.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby FrediFizzx » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:14 pm

Heinera wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote: The hard one is to write a local simulation using QM operators.
.

The day you understand Bell's theorem (if that day ever comes) you will realize that writing a local simulation that reproduces the QM correlations is not just hard; it's impossible.

Ah, you are mixing up Gill's theory with Bell's junk shot down theory again (doubtful that day will ever come for you to realize that). Of course it is impossible with QM operators. The math of QM prevents it.
.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby gill1109 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:21 am

FrediFizzx wrote:
Heinera wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote: The hard one is to write a local simulation using QM operators.
.

The day you understand Bell's theorem (if that day ever comes) you will realize that writing a local simulation that reproduces the QM correlations is not just hard; it's impossible.

Ah, you are mixing up Gill's theory with Bell's junk shot down theory again (doubtful that day will ever come for you to realize that). Of course it is impossible with QM operators. The math of QM prevents it.

Indeed, QM prevents it. That’s called Bell’s theorem. I think, Fred, you are confusing Bell’s theorem with the example which Bell gave of a local realist model: the one which generates the saw tooth correlations.

There is no ‘Gill’s theory’. I did work on extending Bell’s theorem in order to show there is no “memory loophole”.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby FrediFizzx » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:49 am

@gill1109 Bell's theory: no local model can reproduce the predictions of QM. Done, shot down. Gill's theory: no local model can simulate the experiments event by event. Your problem is that QM can't predict what the experiments find event by event either. You are just in denial that Bell's theory is shot down already.
.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby gill1109 » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:34 am

FrediFizzx wrote:@gill1109 Bell's theory: no local model can reproduce the predictions of QM. Done, shot down. Gill's theory: no local model can simulate the experiments event by event. Your problem is that QM can't predict what the experiments find event by event either. You are just in denial that Bell's theory is shot down already.
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Bell’s theorem, as we understand it today: no local and realistic non-conspiratorial model can reproduce the predictions of QM. Still very much alive. :lol:

QM does not predict experimental results event by event. QM predicts probabilities of outcomes, not outcomes themselves. Any theory which predicts the outcomes too would be non-local. Such as the de Broglie-Bohm theory. Or conspiratorial, such as the theories of Duda, ‘t Hooft, Palmer or Hossenfelder.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby FrediFizzx » Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:41 pm

gill1109 wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote:@gill1109 Bell's theory: no local model can reproduce the predictions of QM. Done, shot down. Gill's theory: no local model can simulate the experiments event by event. Your problem is that QM can't predict what the experiments find event by event either. You are just in denial that Bell's theory is shot down already.
.

Bell’s theorem, as we understand it today: no local and realistic non-conspiratorial model can reproduce the predictions of QM. Still very much alive. ...

Well..., that is patently false. Joy has published papers that say it's false. Plus I even did a more simple model that says it is false. Not much you can do about it except to try to lie your way out of it as usual.
.
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby gill1109 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:02 am

FrediFizzx wrote:
gill1109 wrote:
FrediFizzx wrote:@gill1109 Bell's theory: no local model can reproduce the predictions of QM. Done, shot down. Gill's theory: no local model can simulate the experiments event by event. Your problem is that QM can't predict what the experiments find event by event either. You are just in denial that Bell's theory is shot down already.
.

Bell’s theorem, as we understand it today: no local and realistic non-conspiratorial model can reproduce the predictions of QM. Still very much alive. ...

Well..., that is patently false. Joy has published papers that say it's false. Plus I even did a more simple model that says it is false. Not much you can do about it except to try to lie your way out of it as usual.

Your simple model, Fred, says nothing which we didn’t already know, and it beautifully illustrates Bell’s theorem. You yourself cited Bell's own statement of what his own theorem is. Remember it?
We add the hypothesis of locality, that the setting b of a particular instrument has no effect on what happens, A, in a remote region, and likewise that a has no effect on B: A(a, µ), B(b, µ). With these local forms, it is not possible to find functions A and B [taking values +/–1] and a probability distribution π which give the correlation [∫ A(a, µ) B(b, µ) π(d µ)] =–a.b. This is the theorem. The proof will not be repeated here.

Your own model, Fred, illustrates this theorem perfectly. You, as also does Joy Christian, know various ways of doing a computation which ends up with the desired answer -a.b. But *you* do not show that your computation, whether analytic or by simulation, is a computation of the expression ∫ A(a, µ) B(b, µ) π(d µ), with functions A and B taking values +/–1, and a probability distribution π not depending on a or b.

Shouting personal abuse only weakens your case still further! Show us the maths, show us the physics. Or admit that you might be wrong. Is that so very difficult?
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Re: Heine's non-local HV model in Mathematica

Postby gill1109 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:05 am

“Locality in quantum mechanics: reply to critics. Epistemological Letters, Nov. 1975, pp 2–6.”

Excerpt From: Bell, J. S. “Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics”.

If you think Bell is wrong, give us your expressions for A, B and pi.
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